Bank Charges - The ABC/123 To Reclaiming Them

Dilbert · 07-12-2006, 02:32 PM

The original thread that sparked this is here and if you want to ask any questions please ask them in there, this is a locked thread that just contains the information and resources for doing it without any extra waffle from me or anyone else.

Click the links below for the info.

Reclaiming bank charges in a nutshell
The law behind all this
Try not to get charged in the first place
Step 1. Set up another bank account
Step 2. Find out and total all your charges
Statutory Interest Calculator
Step 3. Write asking for your money back
Step 4: Threaten to take it to court
Step 5: Take it to court
Send in the bailiffs
Where to get further help
Related Articles
Contacts

Dilbert · 07-12-2006, 02:40 PM

Note

Q1 - This sounds great, what can I claim Back ?

The things you can claim back

returned direct debits,

card misuse,
unpaid standing order,
unpaid item,
exceeding your overdraft,
overdraft interest (see below),
total charges (see below)
(more will be added as and when confirmation is found)

The things you cant claim back

ATM (cash machine) usage (typically £1)

An agreed overdraft fee - The regular fee for staying within your overdraft limit.
Anything which is deemed a "service" by the bank

Q2 - How far back can I claim ?
You can only go back 6 years, anything beyond that time is lost

Q3 - So what do I do and how do I go about claiming this money back ?
First of all you need to work out how much the bank owes you which means looking through all you old statements and totting up the values, if you have all the statements then proceed to Q5 and start totting up, if you dont then use the letter below to request your statements from the bank.

Q4 - I dont keep my bank statements, how do I get a copy of them from my bank and will I have to pay for these ?
The banks are allowed to charge you a maximum of £10 to supply these statements but its likely that if you do this as per the letter below they wont charge you for this as they realise that you can also charge this fee back at a later date because you needed to pay the money to fight your claim for the illegal charges to be returned to you.

Q5 - So how exactly do I ask my bank for the statements back ?
The letter below is the standard letter that you need to send to your bank and to prevent any dragging of feet and to show proper intent to them that your serious you should send the letter recorded delivery.

Dilbert · 08-01-2007, 07:29 PM

Easiest way to calculate the interest is by using the google spreadsheet I posted previously http://hlccl.com/forums/showpost.php...8&postcount=32

Throughout claim with contractual interestIs the one I used which uses 8% as the interest rate and it really does add up so its worth claiming the interest. eg. £37.50 in Feb 2001 = 17.78 in interest !

If yah havent got a gmail account give me an email addy and I will send yah one.

Dilbert · 17-01-2007, 03:10 PM

A better step by step guide

Step-By-Step Instructions
Please note that this advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice.

Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

This information is a guide only - your case may not unfold in this way - but the majority have.

************************* ************************* ********

If you want to understand litigation in the County Court small claims track works, then we now recommend Patricia Pearl's book: Small Claims Procedure: A Practical Guide.
This book is excellently laid out and is a thorough but readable guide for the ordinary person who wants to bring any kind of claim in the County Court.

See a full review here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=74&a=1 3

************************* ************************* ************************* ************************* *******************

Bank charges are not legally enforceable if they are penalties. Penalty clauses in contracts in English (and Scottish) law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party.

Nobody believes that it costs a bank £25 to £39 to return a DD, SO or cheque. It is purely a money making scheme, and a lucrative one at that - last year Which! estimated that the top 4 UK high street banks made £3 Billion from these charges alone. One in five bank customers incur these types of charge, and because its a bank imposing them, most assume that the bank must be legally entitled to do so.

An interview by Radio 4 with Peter McNamara in 2004 has been transcribed and is in the library. Peter McNamara had previously been the Head of Personal Banking at Lloyds. In his interview, he makes it clear that charges are used to fund free banking for the whole population.

We believe this is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) - the OFT is already investigating the charges levied by Credit Card Companies - and possibly the Supply of Goods and Services Act.

The following information is based on experiences of people posting in the forum and has been collated here in a readable form. This should not be considered legal advice.

REMEMBER - using the courts is a last resort. You should be absolutely, 100% sure of your case and 100% sure that you have exhausted every avenue to settle before considering legal action.

How to reclaim your charges.
Thousands of people have now reclaimed their charges from their bank - some by just asking, some by sending threatening letters and some by starting legal action. ALL got their money back before a court hearing has been heard.

It is our opinion that the banks do NOT want to go to court. In all of the letters received from banks giving the money back, they claim that it is for 'financial' reasons - i.e. the cost of defending a claim would outweigh that of just paying up.

In the case of one of our forum users, the bank paid 600% of what was being claimed in order to avoid court action. The bank in question has repaid over £100,000 so far. Surely if they were legally entitled to this money, they would have defended an action by now to prove the point and stop the 'snowball' effect?
How many more cases do they have to pay back before it becomes financially viable? I think we all know the real answer.

Anyway, to the point; A step-by-step indication of how to reclaim punitive charges from your bank:

(1)

If you do not know the amount the bank has taken from you, then send the Data Protection Act request letter in the library Data Protection Act REQUEST (The bank can charge a maximum £10 fee for this by law - send it to stop any delaying tactics from the banks - if they don't use it then great - if they do, then fair enough - at least you'll be getting the rest of your money back).

Under the Data Protection Act - the Data Controller has only 40 days to provide this information. If they refuse, or do not furnish you with the full information within 40 days, report them to the information commissioner - Information Commissioners Office â€“ Information Commissioner's Office - for a breach of the Data Protection Act. We also have templated letters to force compliance through the courts - see the Templates Library.

Having received either a summary of charges, or copy statements, and calculated your charges (plus any overdraft interest which you can show was caused solely by those charges - not general overdraft interest), enter them into one of our spreadsheets in the Library. This will also calculate a further kind of interest (at 8%) but this is not reclaimable at this early stage and is for future reference only.

(2)

If you know how much you are claiming (i.e. because you already have all your statements), then send the preliminary approach letter - PRELIM LETTER - in the library section.

Edit the letter according to your circumstances, removing any details not applicable etc..

Enclose a schedule detailing the charges you are claiming, but do NOT include the 8% interest on the schedule yet.

(3)

One of the following will now happen:

A) The bank or Credit Card company will ignore your request and you will not receive a reply. If this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim.

B) You will receive a fairly standard letter saying "sorry you are not happy, we'll get back to you sometime in the next decade..." Again, if this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim.

C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. We would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds.

D) You will be offered a full settlement of your claim. Experience shows this to be very unlikely at this early stage, but it just might happen.

(4)

If you are not offered a FULL refund then proceed to the Letter Before Action (LBA) in the library.

However do make sure that you understand that there is a possibility that the Bank may decide to defend and that you may have to present your case to a judge in a Small Claims Court. This is very rare, but you should be aware of the possibility.

If you have to issue a court claim, the spreadsheet mentioned earlier will also calculate interest at 8% as allowed by s.69 the County Courts Act (1984) and which you will add to your claim at that point. NOTE: you do not claim the 8% unless you put in a court claim.

continued....

Dilbert · 17-01-2007, 03:11 PM

(5)

Once again, one of the following will now happen:

A) The bank or credit card company will ignore your request and you will not receive a reply. If this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim - COURT ACTION

B) You will receive a fairly standard letter saying "sorry you are not happy, we'll get back to you sometime in the next decade..." Again, if this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim.

C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. Again, we would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds. This is now the most likely outcome.

D) You will be offered a full settlement of your claim. This is still unlikely at this stage, but it just might happen.

(6)

If you still don't get a full refund then you must now issue a court claim.There are 2 options -firstly online at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk - fill in the form. A rough pro forma text can be copied from the library section (also, part of the text you need is also on the moneyclaim website) - you will have to register there for free, but you will have to pay the fees associated with the case, with a credit or debit card. These are minimal and you will get them back from the bank when they refund your money should you win your case.

If you are in receipt of certain benefits, you may be exempt from the fees.

See here - DO YOU HAVE TO PAY?

If you don't have a credit or debit card, or would prefer not to use the online version, then you can complete an N1 Claim Form. These are available from your local court buildings, but we also have a PDF version in the Library - the Particulars of Claim text can be copy & pasted into this form and printed off. If you are starting your claim in this way, be sure to make 3 identical copies of the form - 1 for you and 2 for the court.

Attach a schedule of your claim with the form which will now include the 8% interest.

N.B. The court fees range from £30 - £120 depending upon the total value of the claim. You DO get this back as well if you win your case.

(7)

The bank will now either....

A) Ignore the claim completely - they can claim incompetence as the reason for not Acknowledging or defending and you win by 'default' after 14 days. You will need to apply for a judgment which you should do as soon as the time limit has expired.

If they get a defence in before you apply for the judgment, then they gain the right to proceed into court if they want.

B) Acknowledge the claim - this buys them a further 14 days to enter a defence. Some banks will acknowledge the claim and then pay up. They know you MEAN it now! For every threat that gets this far, there are many more that give up long before this point and they know it.

Some will acknowledge the claim, but 'forget' to enter a defence - after 28 days from the date the papers are served on them you will have won by default and you will get all your money back. Once again, you will need to apply for a judgment. If they do not pay you in full, you have every right to send the bailiffs in - this can also be done from the moneyclaim.gov.uk site or by applying in person at your local court (if you started your claim this way)

C) Settle the claim in full, including interest and court fees (if they offer to settle for anything less, then refuse - YOU WILL GET THE FULL AMOUNT)

D) Submit a defence. If they do this, the court will send you an Allocation Questionnaire form to complete. This is quite straight forward and, once again, there is help for completing one.

(8 )

If (a) or (c) - then job done, take the money, go to the pub and pat yourself on the back.

If (b), then just sit back and wait. They have 28 days from the date of service in which to submit their defence. It is fairly likely that a full settlement will be made at this stage.

If (d) - complete the Allocation Questionnaire mentioned above, making sure you return it within 7 days. Pay any additional fees at this point.
Keep a photocopy of the questionnaire for future reference.

We have a guide to completing these forms HERE

The court will now set a date for a hearing (if the bank hasn't already given your money back by this point - and most will have done)

(9)

Extremely unlikely, but the bank may choose to defend in court. If this happens, come to the forums and post details of events. We will help to guide you through the proceedings.

OTHER NOTES

It pays to open another account somewhere else in case they turn nasty and close your accounts and/or demand overdrafts be paid pack immediately - some have been known to do this on occasion - although most don't. If you have the choice, stay with the same bank - next time they charge you for going 8 pence over your limit, they KNOW that your threat is real.

Finally, if you have been defaulted for a debt which has been caused by unlawful charges, you must make it clear to the bank that any settlement must include FULL REMOVAL of the default entry - not merely a correction or amendment.

Above all, stand your ground. Good luck.

In the Consumer Action Group library there are now Case Guidance notes on going / at court and putting your case. However, it is your case. You are responsible for its preparation and presentation
You would also be advised to buy a small book on Small Claims Procedure - SEE HERE

Please note that this advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

07-12-2006, 02:32 PM	#1
Dilbert < Before Join Date: May 2002 Location: Leamington Spa Posts: 19,492	Bank Charges - The ABC/123 To Reclaiming Them The original thread that sparked this is here and if you want to ask any questions please ask them in there, this is a locked thread that just contains the information and resources for doing it without any extra waffle from me or anyone else. Click the links below for the info. Reclaiming bank charges in a nutshell The law behind all this Try not to get charged in the first place Step 1. Set up another bank account Step 2. Find out and total all your charges Statutory Interest Calculator Step 3. Write asking for your money back Step 4: Threaten to take it to court Step 5: Take it to court Send in the bailiffs Where to get further help Related Articles Contacts Last edited by Dilbert : 08-01-2007 at 03:59 PM.

07-12-2006, 02:40 PM	#2
Dilbert < Before Join Date: May 2002 Location: Leamington Spa Posts: 19,492	Note Q1 - This sounds great, what can I claim Back ? The things you can claim back returned direct debits, card misuse, unpaid standing order, unpaid item, exceeding your overdraft, overdraft interest (see below), total charges (see below) (more will be added as and when confirmation is found) The things you cant claim back ATM (cash machine) usage (typically £1) An agreed overdraft fee - The regular fee for staying within your overdraft limit. Anything which is deemed a "service" by the bank Q2 - How far back can I claim ? You can only go back 6 years, anything beyond that time is lost Q3 - So what do I do and how do I go about claiming this money back ? First of all you need to work out how much the bank owes you which means looking through all you old statements and totting up the values, if you have all the statements then proceed to Q5 and start totting up, if you dont then use the letter below to request your statements from the bank. Q4 - I dont keep my bank statements, how do I get a copy of them from my bank and will I have to pay for these ? The banks are allowed to charge you a maximum of £10 to supply these statements but its likely that if you do this as per the letter below they wont charge you for this as they realise that you can also charge this fee back at a later date because you needed to pay the money to fight your claim for the illegal charges to be returned to you. Q5 - So how exactly do I ask my bank for the statements back ? The letter below is the standard letter that you need to send to your bank and to prevent any dragging of feet and to show proper intent to them that your serious you should send the letter recorded delivery. Last edited by Dilbert : 07-12-2006 at 02:54 PM.

08-01-2007, 07:29 PM	#3
Dilbert < Before Join Date: May 2002 Location: Leamington Spa Posts: 19,492	Easiest way to calculate the interest is by using the google spreadsheet I posted previously http://hlccl.com/forums/showpost.php...8&postcount=32 Throughout claim with contractual interestIs the one I used which uses 8% as the interest rate and it really does add up so its worth claiming the interest. eg. £37.50 in Feb 2001 = 17.78 in interest ! If yah havent got a gmail account give me an email addy and I will send yah one.

17-01-2007, 03:10 PM	#4
Dilbert < Before Join Date: May 2002 Location: Leamington Spa Posts: 19,492	A better step by step guide Step-By-Step Instructions Please note that this advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. This information is a guide only - your case may not unfold in this way - but the majority have. *********************** ********************* **** If you want to understand litigation in the County Court small claims track works, then we now recommend Patricia Pearl's book: Small Claims Procedure: A Practical Guide. This book is excellently laid out and is a thorough but readable guide for the ordinary person who wants to bring any kind of claim in the County Court. See a full review here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=74&a=1 3 ********************* ********************* ********************* ********************* *************** Bank charges are not legally enforceable if they are penalties. Penalty clauses in contracts in English (and Scottish) law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. Nobody believes that it costs a bank £25 to £39 to return a DD, SO or cheque. It is purely a money making scheme, and a lucrative one at that - last year Which! estimated that the top 4 UK high street banks made £3 Billion from these charges alone. One in five bank customers incur these types of charge, and because its a bank imposing them, most assume that the bank must be legally entitled to do so. An interview by Radio 4 with Peter McNamara in 2004 has been transcribed and is in the library. Peter McNamara had previously been the Head of Personal Banking at Lloyds. In his interview, he makes it clear that charges are used to fund free banking for the whole population. We believe this is also a breach of the 1999 Consumer Credit Act (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) - the OFT is already investigating the charges levied by Credit Card Companies - and possibly the Supply of Goods and Services Act. The following information is based on experiences of people posting in the forum and has been collated here in a readable form. This should not be considered legal advice. REMEMBER - using the courts is a last resort. You should be absolutely, 100% sure of your case and 100% sure that you have exhausted every avenue to settle before considering legal action. How to reclaim your charges. Thousands of people have now reclaimed their charges from their bank - some by just asking, some by sending threatening letters and some by starting legal action. ALL got their money back before a court hearing has been heard. It is our opinion that the banks do NOT want to go to court. In all of the letters received from banks giving the money back, they claim that it is for 'financial' reasons - i.e. the cost of defending a claim would outweigh that of just paying up. In the case of one of our forum users, the bank paid 600% of what was being claimed in order to avoid court action. The bank in question has repaid over £100,000 so far. Surely if they were legally entitled to this money, they would have defended an action by now to prove the point and stop the 'snowball' effect? How many more cases do they have to pay back before it becomes financially viable? I think we all know the real answer. Anyway, to the point; A step-by-step indication of how to reclaim punitive charges from your bank: (1) If you do not know the amount the bank has taken from you, then send the Data Protection Act request letter in the library Data Protection Act REQUEST (The bank can charge a maximum £10 fee for this by law - send it to stop any delaying tactics from the banks - if they don't use it then great - if they do, then fair enough - at least you'll be getting the rest of your money back). Under the Data Protection Act - the Data Controller has only 40 days to provide this information. If they refuse, or do not furnish you with the full information within 40 days, report them to the information commissioner - Information Commissioners Office â€“ Information Commissioner's Office - for a breach of the Data Protection Act. We also have templated letters to force compliance through the courts - see the Templates Library. Having received either a summary of charges, or copy statements, and calculated your charges (plus any overdraft interest which you can show was caused solely by those charges - not general overdraft interest), enter them into one of our spreadsheets in the Library. This will also calculate a further kind of interest (at 8%) but this is not reclaimable at this early stage and is for future reference only. (2) If you know how much you are claiming (i.e. because you already have all your statements), then send the preliminary approach letter - PRELIM LETTER - in the library section. Edit the letter according to your circumstances, removing any details not applicable etc.. Enclose a schedule detailing the charges you are claiming, but do NOT include the 8% interest on the schedule yet. (3) One of the following will now happen: A) The bank or Credit Card company will ignore your request and you will not receive a reply. If this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim. B) You will receive a fairly standard letter saying "sorry you are not happy, we'll get back to you sometime in the next decade..." Again, if this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim. C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. We would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds. D) You will be offered a full settlement of your claim. Experience shows this to be very unlikely at this early stage, but it just might happen. (4)** If you are not offered a FULL refund then proceed to the Letter Before Action (LBA) in the library. However do make sure that you understand that there is a possibility that the Bank may decide to defend and that you may have to present your case to a judge in a Small Claims Court. This is very rare, but you should be aware of the possibility. If you have to issue a court claim, the spreadsheet mentioned earlier will also calculate interest at 8% as allowed by s.69 the County Courts Act (1984) and which you will add to your claim at that point. NOTE: you do not claim the 8% unless you put in a court claim. continued....

17-01-2007, 03:11 PM	#5
Dilbert < Before Join Date: May 2002 Location: Leamington Spa Posts: 19,492	(5) Once again, one of the following will now happen: A) The bank or credit card company will ignore your request and you will not receive a reply. If this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim - COURT ACTION B) You will receive a fairly standard letter saying "sorry you are not happy, we'll get back to you sometime in the next decade..." Again, if this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim. C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. Again, we would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds. This is now the most likely outcome. D) You will be offered a full settlement of your claim. This is still unlikely at this stage, but it just might happen. (6) If you still don't get a full refund then you must now issue a court claim.There are 2 options -firstly online at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk - fill in the form. A rough pro forma text can be copied from the library section (also, part of the text you need is also on the moneyclaim website) - you will have to register there for free, but you will have to pay the fees associated with the case, with a credit or debit card. These are minimal and you will get them back from the bank when they refund your money should you win your case. If you are in receipt of certain benefits, you may be exempt from the fees. See here - DO YOU HAVE TO PAY? If you don't have a credit or debit card, or would prefer not to use the online version, then you can complete an N1 Claim Form. These are available from your local court buildings, but we also have a PDF version in the Library - the Particulars of Claim text can be copy & pasted into this form and printed off. If you are starting your claim in this way, be sure to make 3 identical copies of the form - 1 for you and 2 for the court. Attach a schedule of your claim with the form which will now include the 8% interest. *N.B.* The court fees range from £30 - £120 depending upon the total value of the claim. You DO get this back as well if you win your case. (7) The bank will now either.... A) Ignore the claim completely - they can claim incompetence as the reason for not Acknowledging or defending and you win by 'default' after 14 days. You will need to apply for a judgment which you should do as soon as the time limit has expired. If they get a defence in before you apply for the judgment, then they gain the right to proceed into court if they want. B) Acknowledge the claim - this buys them a further 14 days to enter a defence. Some banks will acknowledge the claim and then pay up. They know you MEAN it now! For every threat that gets this far, there are many more that give up long before this point and they know it. Some will acknowledge the claim, but 'forget' to enter a defence - after 28 days from the date the papers are served on them you will have won by default and you will get all your money back. Once again, you will need to apply for a judgment. If they do not pay you in full, you have every right to send the bailiffs in - this can also be done from the moneyclaim.gov.uk site or by applying in person at your local court (if you started your claim this way) C) Settle the claim in full, including interest and court fees (if they offer to settle for anything less, then refuse - YOU WILL GET THE FULL AMOUNT) D) Submit a defence. If they do this, the court will send you an Allocation Questionnaire form to complete. This is quite straight forward and, once again, there is help for completing one. (8 ) If (a) or (c) - then job done, take the money, go to the pub and pat yourself on the back. If (b), then just sit back and wait. They have 28 days from the date of service in which to submit their defence. It is fairly likely that a full settlement will be made at this stage. If (d) - complete the Allocation Questionnaire mentioned above, making sure you return it within 7 days. Pay any additional fees at this point. Keep a photocopy of the questionnaire for future reference. We have a guide to completing these forms HERE The court will now set a date for a hearing (if the bank hasn't already given your money back by this point - and most will have done) (9) Extremely unlikely, but the bank may choose to defend in court. If this happens, come to the forums and post details of events. We will help to guide you through the proceedings. OTHER NOTES It pays to open another account somewhere else in case they turn nasty and close your accounts and/or demand overdrafts be paid pack immediately - some have been known to do this on occasion - although most don't. If you have the choice, stay with the same bank - next time they charge you for going 8 pence over your limit, they KNOW that your threat is real. Finally, if you have been defaulted for a debt which has been caused by unlawful charges, you must make it clear to the bank that any settlement must include FULL REMOVAL of the default entry - not merely a correction or amendment. Above all, stand your ground. Good luck. In the Consumer Action Group library there are now Case Guidance notes on going / at court and putting your case. However, it is your case. You are responsible for its preparation and presentation You would also be advised to buy a small book on Small Claims Procedure - SEE HERE Please note that this advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.